memberlist memberlist search search profile profile login to read bytes login to read bytes log in log in
« prev  1, 2, 3  next »   post reply
index « biological « Questions

posted : 2004.Nov.16 @ 10.01am
phong, i had never heard of Alan Watts before. thank you for posting this.

air, its totally true--what do you think the copyright situation is on these mp3s?
Very Happy

posted : 2004.Nov.16 @ 10.07am
Marc, as long as you never intend to sell it, who cares?! Very Happy (My guess is that they're protected.)
It's chill room perfect. Something for next year's Cal Arts performances or a coffee shop near you?

posted : 2004.Nov.16 @ 2.39pm
grunt, thank you for the information on Hollis Littlecreek. I have been enjoying reading about him. It is so wonderful that you had the opportunity to know him.

posted : 2004.Nov.16 @ 3.35pm
air, precisely what i had in mind. Cool

posted : 2005.Jan.06 @ 4.40pm
I have a question,
Where does thought come from?

posted : 2005.Jan.06 @ 7.03pm
Yo melo, good question. I like how wide it blows everything open.

Where does thought come from? eventually becomes, where does awareness come from? This is more fundamental, somthing which can never be articulated in finite form. The only way to know is to dissolve into it's purity.

Yet for the fun of high philosophy, we can tackle these questions within various scopes and perspectives. While all of these constructs may have some conditioned truth to them, they are by no means absolute, but quick snapshots of a giant finger pointing towards a long spiral, expanding into infinity. No verbal 'finger' can actually touch infinity, as it would have to be fininity large to reach that far, in which case it would have to be infinity itself, which the truth of all essence already is. Smile

First you may want to define what it is we're referring to as thoughts. Are they any forms composing a valid state of cognition, balancing on perceptions as interpreted in the nervous system and subtle body? If so we want to limit what we call thoughts to the scope of forms we grossly define as a ‘product’ of the brain, yet inversely you could say that the brain itself is a product of the thought forms which hold it in awareness, and maintain it’s will to propagate.

You could break down any level of manifestation as awareness of contrast, whether it's thought forms arising from the patterns of neurons firing in the brain, which your awareness can often seem inextricably bound up in, or awareness arising from the contrast in patterns of currents in the ocean as perceived by the earth.

There is really no literal dualism between the body and its environment. You can’t draw a real solid line around a human body and say this is body and this is not body. The body is entirely conditioned by its environment and breathes the same essence- the only thing which separating it is our perceptions which are held in the awareness of the thought forms which construct this illusion.

There is something particular about a human body which makes it vibrate at a different rate than it’s environment which helps this very practical illusion of separation- this high vibration is largely an effect of the nervous system maintained by electric vibrations which it’s composing cells use to communicate amongst themselves to the benefit of their collective survival and propogation.

Ultimately awareness manifests all things. All manifestation is a product of some form of awareness. If a manifestation existed, yet there was never any awareness of it, how would it exist? Where would it exist? And to whom would it exist without awareness?

So in this way pure awareness is the unconditioned measure of all form, as it is entirely unmanifest. It's essence has no form. And like any eternal truth, it paradoxically is the root of all form. Awareness is so liquidly unmanifest that it flows into all forms and dimensions where there is contrast to be perceived. All levels and patterns of consciousness which it flows through are bound as such to one eternal thread.

My perception of who you are arises as a conditioned projection of my past experience, likewise your perception of me is essentially conditioned by your past. Yet here we can stand in the same room, and touch eachother's awareness in so many ways. How else could we communicate if we weren't one in the same awareness?

Now what we generally refer to as thoughts are a conditioned form of awareness, balancing upon say the behavioral patterns of minerals which compose the cells, which tend to abide by the wisdom of their anscestors etched in their DNA to create tissues and organs which support and condition the electrical nervous system and it’s patterns of behavior. The brain is utterly condtioned by the systems and patterns upon which it is balanced.

You alter the brain, and its form of awareness is altered. Inversely so, your thoughts actually manifest the patterns of neurons firing, and the variety and intesity of thoughts have a dramatic effect on the production of chemicals conditioning in the system, thus propagating or altering the experience and orientation of thought-forms on the physical plane.

Now it doesn’t end here, it flows into infinity. All gross physical form is projected from the subtle systems which vibrate on a more fundamental plane than the manifestations of matter. These systems may flow through and be scattered by gross material forms, yet cannot be essentially destroyed by it. For instance, electromagnetic energy is a subtle form of manifestation. It is a subtle physical phenomenon, which can be directed by, yet not destroyed by gross materials, such as minerals and their composing atoms, subatomic wave/particles.

An analogy might be drawn between a monitor and a movie playing on its screen. No matter how large the explosion on the screen, no matter how violent the imagery, nothing displayed on the screen can destroy the monitor itself. The monitor exists on a more fundamental plane than the movie it projects. Which it to say, the contents of the movie balance on the form of the monitor.

So if the color of the screen is imbalanced towards the color red, it will condition the whole movie to be red. Nothing in the movie can change this physical dysfunction of the monitor. The movie is fundamentally conditioned by the monitor. You need a real person balancing on the same material plane as the monitor as the monitor to fix it.

By Alex Grey, Sacred Mirrors
Now in an inverse way, holding that the form of electromagnetic energy is more fundamental than physical vibrations (which is not absolutely true), it could be said that the monitor is our subtle body which projects into the movie of life through our physical body. Our body is the movie screen on which the video is projected… it is the carrier of the gross manifestation of awareness… yet it too is a game in which we create all our own rules. In this way the subtle body ‘plays’ the human body, through the controls of discipline.

Yet even the subtle body has it’s own conditioned games and illusions, which is what makes life so interesting. We can choose to play or quit any game with anybody at any level we are thoroughly aware of. Here we all choose to play this organism composed of self-proclaimed artists we call the pod. It lives largely in digital space, which arises as a projection from a more fundamental plane of physical human relationships. It is one of our many games which shape our lives and direct our ambitions. You can kill the higher entity called pod by removing the internat, yet all of it's composing individuals continue to live. Our bodies balance on a more fundamental plane, from which the internet arises.

In a similar way, our subtle electromagnetic bodies can flow through the more manifest electric system of nerve fibers, which balance on the trillions of cells composing the physical body, yet it's essence cannot be fundamentally destroyed by it. Like the body of a city is balanced upon the behavior of it's composing humans.

The human body can propogate it's patterns into the electromagnetic flow, yet once the electric nervous system dies, it's free to flow right through it when there is no electrical charge is in the nerve fibers. The body dies, and if the subtle system and its composing thought forms can maintain the energy to balance their electromagnetic system of patterns, it may balance independent from the body and maintain a smooth flow of consciousness after the passing away of the physical body on which it originally found balance.

This might still create a dramatic contrast in the thread of awareness flowing through the two systems, yet if it were grounded enough the subtle body might survive in good condition.

So in this way subtle thought forms which balance on this system can transcended the material plane of thought forms by mastering it’s flow, which gives rise to a new phenomenon where volitions balanced as patterns of though on subtle planes can find the ability to enter through multiple bodies through time to manifest their volitions.

In this way, some levels of thought forms do not decay in the same flow as the gross patterns of physical manifestation, which are inherently conditioned by the collective functioning of organs, cells, minerals, atoms, and forth down the spiral of manifestation. Rather they are conditioned by a more subtle form of consciousness.

Thoughts inhabit different levels of awareness, yet all thought forms are conditioned by the plane of consciousness on which they find balance. All thought is form. And all form as perceived in awareness is thought.

Yet these descriptions are rather crude, as it flows into infinity.

posted : 2005.Jan.24 @ 12.06pm
Here's an eternal question:
What happens when you die?

I'd like to hear- what do your faith, beleif and thoughts tell you?
Let it loose.

posted : 2005.Jan.24 @ 12.27pm
I have often thought, what if what happens to you when you die is what you believe in when you are alive. Meaning if you believe in heaven then there you will go, if you believe in reincarnation then you shall be reincarnated and if you believe that there is nothing after death then there isn't. I figure, believe in that which you would wish to experience after death and what sounds, looks and feels good to you now.

posted : 2005.Jan.24 @ 1.47pm
Ha ha Very Happy I'm still trying to figure out if I can reply in some way to your answer to my last question. Very insightful piece there I must say. It's had me thinking.

Anyway, I obviously don't have a clear answer to this question of death, but I would like to share an experience that I think relates... maybe directly maybe not.

A couple of years ago I saw a movie called waking life. The movie covers a lot of different aspects of the dream world, from your basic dream, to the lucid state, and then touches on the possibility of a collective state we reach via dreams. I enjoyed a lot of the philosophical discussions in the movie but other than that it didn't truly rock me at first.
A month or so after that I got really sick and decided to take some Nyquil, which I already knew is prone to give me nightmares but I took it anyway.... that night I had a horrifying nightmare and couldn't go back to sleep. So I got on the internet and started reading about dreams, etc. partly out of boredom, partly out of fascination at how real the experience can be. Eventually I got linked back to the waking life movie website and from there linked here.

I had heard of lucid dreaming before but never really pondered it as a reality for myself, but due to the circumstances I became completely fascinated with it. For months after lucid dreaming became my #1 focus... reading about it all the time, I even got these special goggles that transmit led sequences onto your eyelids upon detection of R.E.M. sleep.... ha ha... they didn't work.
Anyway, I eventually ended up having several lucid dreams. Out of all the techniques I tried, i think what initially allowed me to wake up in the dream world was just constantly thinking about it.

The first time it happened, I dreamed I was riding a skateboard through the neighborhood I grew up in. Soon I rode past the elementary school I went to as a child and decided to go walk around. As i got off the skateboard something weird happened, i realized I don't know how to ride one. At that point this tremendous rush of power came over me... I could feel the waking world grab me and try and pull me awake but I fought it off and continued up the steps. I entered the school and started leaping around 20 feet at a time, just enjoying the ability to do anything. I felt like a child or something. After a couple minutes of this I leapt on out the side exit of the school and was approached by 2 people. One of them was my grandfather, the other was a dream character. THis is where it got kind of strange.
The dream character turned to me and said,
"Isn't it amazing the way you ended up here? That you can surf the internet and find out how to do this?"
This shocked me, I looked into his eyes and it was as if he spoke to me telepathically saying, yes... I know.
SO, after that I kind of got into an argument with my grandpa about weather or not I was actually dreaming, I think this was more of a subconscious depiction of our relationship, an artifact of baggage. I ended up jumping into the sky to prove my super dream powers to him. I floated beyond the atmosphere... the earth grew smaller and smaller beneath me. The feeling of power was so tremendous that I decided to speak. The word that came was "beyond" the minute I said it I found myself in bed saying it out loud.

After this experience I had a series of several dreams like this, each time there were characters who stood out from the others and they all seemed to share the same message, that I was not alone. Very strange.

So after a while, other things began to take over my focus and I didn't have any lucid dreams for a while... and I was OK with it. It took a lot of work to make it such a big part of my life and I was glad to have a break. But soon after they began to happen more on their own, only now something has changed. Now whenever I have a lucid dream they are 2 layers deep. Meaning I wake up in a dream, then wake up once more into "reality". At first I thought it was just trippy but it's happened several times.

Last night I got into a discussion with someone about the movie What the bleep compared to the movie waking life and how they both speak of the possibility that we have the power to experience whatever our mind allows us to, and how by challenging that threshold we can experience an infinitely exponential level of human ability.
This led me to seriously begin to examine this second layer of lucidity I've been experiencing. I wonder how deep it goes? In waking life, the main character wakes up several times before entering back into this common plane of existence we all share. I also seriously wonder about the characters in my dreams that seemed to be more than an aspect of my mind. Waking life implies, or at least I interpreted it as having implied, that there might be some connection between the dream world and those who have passed on.

Buddhism speaks of something called the realm of non-substantiality or Ku.
I've often heard it described as the place "we go" when we die... to "recharge" before we re enter the infinite ocean of existence. I wonder if maybe the deeper we go into our lives (via dreams, meditation possibly other means) the closer we get to experiencing this Ku.

Anyway.... Like I said before, I obviously don't have a clear answer to this question. I just thought I would bring this up in hopes of furthering the discussion. Any thoughts or insights from anyone would be awesome.

posted : 2005.Feb.25 @ 4.32pm
Is my cat going to get cancer from sleeping on top of the monitor all the time?

posted : 2005.Mar.01 @ 3.29am
phong: Truly I don't know, (and if anyone does find out please dont come back and tell me, at least not at night) but in reference to the here and the now, all the options seem as bad as each other. Confused

posted : 2005.Mar.01 @ 10.09am
Melo: It could be a possibility. I just found this article on such matters. I'm no doctor so I really don't know, but if it worries you then you should do something about it.

Phong: I really don't know anymore. I was born and raised as a very proper Catholic child, but it was never my choosing to believe in all that. I was kind of forced into that religion. So I renounced my religion and am currently, for lack of better term, atheist. So I really don't know for certain what happens after death. As far as my mind can comprehend all that happens when you die is you get shut off. Your brain, your body, everything is now gone. Lots of people believe that their "soul" will continue on. I don't know if I have a "soul". I don't really know how to be sure. A soul is just something the mind creates. There is no proof of having a soul. I think alot of those things like souls, a spirtual body, etc. are only there because you believe in it. It is you faith. I'm really not positive towards religion right now in life. As far as death is concerned, you die, you no longer operate, the synapses no longer occur and your beliefs, just like all other brain activity, are now gone. It maybe sad but it is my current belief. Confused

posted : 2005.Mar.02 @ 7.35am
Tagme, in your contemplations of death,
and the survival of what some might call a soul
(what others may call self-propagating energy flows
balanced to project forms of awareness
transcending their physical manifestations)

consider a video game. Quake for instance.

If you've ever played video games seriously in a dark room, you may recall that there are times when your awareness completely dissolves into the moment of playing the game, and you forget who you are, what you life is about, and identify entirely with the video game. You forget what your name is, where you are, all your problems in life.

Yet all the things you had forgotten, still condition your perception of the game. Your brain, which transcends the game itself, living outside of the computer, conditions your volitions in the game, your skill at the game, etc. After all you're still sitting right there in a dark room.

There are many people playing this game, you’re playing it over the internet. Some players are very good and learn very quickly how to use new weapons, can jump around, find secret passageways, and even build their own parts on the map. Other players are very new, still getting the hang of just walking and jumping. They die often, and live uneventful lives, though this may be required to learn the game. Sometimes they may find large weapons laying on the ground, too big for them to use so they blast themselves to death. Other players use the same weapon to blast everybody but themselves.

But suddenly the game crashes, or you die, and you find yourself sitting there in a dark room, quickly remembering what you’re life is about. You feel you are hungry, so you stand up and get something to eat. Though while you were playing, for all you knew sitting in a dark room with all your fingers interacting seamlessly through the computer interface, when the game is over, you’re dead.

Now consider that this game is very immersive, very loud, and very real. You are wearing goggles and gloves so that it surrounds you entirely. Everywhere you look there is game. You turn your head to the right, and the goggles stay strapped to your head. The game is to your right. You turn your head left, and there is the game on your left. Behind, on top and above you, the game is all around. Now the show starts, and you feel what you have to do. You have to go shoot everything that moves. You find large weapons lying perfectly placed around the map, all the tools are there, and the game is so well designed, it seems almost formless. Though this game starts to seem ridiculous, and you want to get to the bottom of it, so you dig around through the menus and quit the game, and now you’re in the operating system, just a prompt. The screen flashes with a little cursor, and through long experimentation, you figure out some commands.

If you poke around deep enough through the file systems, you might find fragments of the programming code that makes the game. Like DNA, it is imbedded in this digital realm. This is not the causal-code, like the C++, this code has already been parsed, so changing too much will destroy the game. So you edit some little variables, and then re-start the game. The color of the sky has changed, but it still feels the same.

So comes a question:
What form of consciousness creates the game, and from what plane does it project?

Nothing in the digital realm, let alone the game, could imply that your body is plugged into a computer, yet you are playing the computer with your body. There is no tool or program that you could run inside the game that could possibly prove the existence of your body, or extract any sort of information about it that you could share with others in the gaming matrix. There is no scientific data, or proof that a physical world exists outside of the game and ignorance might imply that there is nothing outside the game, yet magnificent forms seem to mysteriously materialize inside of it, as if from nothing. The whole thing continues to somehow arise in your awareness- so on what transcending plane do the computer ciruits processing the game exist?

If you are quiet and still enough, and the game stops sending you gross perceptions, you may start feeling your hands sweating inside of the VR glove- a slight rash developing behind your head where the goggles have been attached for so long. Naturally, you start to remember about your body as these parts of the brain become activated by your awareness.

Shake us from the heavy deep sleep of this face laced game.
You start feeling your body’s stomach is hungry, and you are sitting in an uncomfortable position in your chair. There is nothing religious about these perceptions; they’ve very direct, yet perhaps the only place you could feel this quietness was in a temple erected inside the game, sheltered from the gross bustle of the other players. These things you could not feel until the game became very quiet and dark, yet nothing inside the game would imply the rash behind your goggles, the hunger in your belly- yet these bodily perceptions still conditioned your perceptions of the game, since they’re all flowing through your brain in the end. Perhaps this hunger made your game playing more anxious, so you kept messing up certain moves inside the game.

Whatever it is, the game is running on a different plane than your physical body, yet you are still able to project your body’s awareness into it entirely, and forget the body existed. There is no way to prove your body to others, all you can do is feel it. These direct perceptions of the body transcending the game world directly support a faith you carry inside than game that makes the game feel so much easier. You stop worrying about things in the game, even when it gets tough, because you remember through the perceptions of your body, that it’s just a game.

How do you prove with the tools inside the game that it is just a game?

Though it is not just a game, it is also the circuits which process the game, and the universe where the circuits operate. The only way to know it is a game is through conscious perceptions on a contrasting plane, and then even the concept of it being a game is your creation, your faith. Really, the electricity flowing through the circuits making the game operate is one with the universe that your body lives in.

All proof must come scientifically. Scientific proof is based on the Scientific Method, which requires that you demonstrate the same phenomenon to react consistently within the aims you intend to ‘prove’ at least three times, and have other parties witnessing the same phenomenon repeatedly, then provide instruction so they can prove it too. Now how are you going to prove to other avatars in the gaming matrix that you have a rash developing on the ass of your physical body? What program are you going to use to measure the feeling of the itch it is causing you?

In the west we are very proficient in the external science-proving and measuring things so that we can build concepts upon concepts, and share symbols implying proofs and communicate in those terms. It allows us to manifest creations on a mass scale, through the systematic conditioning and coordination of millions of people’s efforts.

Meanwhile, there is an internal science which has developed in the east, encapsulating traditions such as Raja Yoga, Buddhism, Tantra, etc, which outline in very specific terms, physical and mental practices you can do if you so choose to transform your consciousness to perceive awareness reflecting off of planes that transcend the game. You will find these techniques in writing, propagated by the masters of them inside the gaming world. They will outline particular ancient techniques which have been proven to work by everybody who has passed them on since they were first practiced. You can prove them to yourself through rigorous practice.

These practices are for people who, having played the game many times, still find it interesting, and don’t necessarily want to quit just yet, though they prefer playing so that they’re not hopelessly identified with the inevitable suffering in the game, or shit themselves in their physical pants every time they die in the virtual world.

Often these people sit in dark corners of the game, where it is quiet. Casual gamers say they are just sitting or meditating, but the sitting meditators know that they are opening up a whole new plane of consciousness and playing in that realm the whole time, quite occupied with whatever states arise. Here they may be finding a more comfortable sitting position, or applying some lotion to the rash that had been developing behind the goggles. Or they may just be feeling their physical bodies to realize through the contrasting perceptions, that they are just in a game at the moment and so not to worry. Perhaps this makes their gaming experience more enjoyable and more fantastic, being able to perceive multiple planes projecting at once.

So to invert the analogy, no matter how hard we look inside the physical universe, no body will ever find scientific proof of our subtle most forms which transcend and ultimately project these gross manifestations. These dimensions cannot be proven with scientific method, measured with tools or known with measurements- they must be perceived directly. And once direct perception is attained, no longer are there confusing issues of beleif- the root of faith becomes somthing which is known, something which is seen- and so acting in harmony with it is most natural.

There will never be proof of what all this is, and to the very end it will have us guessing, which is why it is so immersive, why we are still here, eternally playing this game of life. There will never be anything implying what is real. And really, if awareness is the only thing that is real as it is fundamental to all things, even this fragmented analogy of a game is as real as anything.


« prev  1, 2, 3  next »   post reply
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum